The title says it all, do you think webartz needs to ship to a different forum software, either phpbb3 or mybb (more preferred) ?

the other open source forum systems are more popular these days and i guess it would help us gain members who hate forumotion software as well.

cons : Decent amount needs to be paid for the hosting.

Well personally. I think that this forum would do so much better on a paid software and phpbb3. I actually don't have anymore forumotion forums now. They are all on paid hosting. The thing is, once you get paid hosting and suff, you realize very quickly how bad forumotion really is. Actually you are incorrect about the hosing. I know of some host that offer great hosting for as little as $2 a month. However, even this is an excellent idea, I doubt it would happen

Me & ankillien had thought about this about 6-7 months back, we had decided we will wait until WebArtz becomes really famous & we would then require a paid hosting. Anyways, it will be good to see what our users have to say.

Sanket wrote:WebArtz becomes really famous

It would happen sooner than you thought if we moved on.....

Dimon wrote:

Sanket wrote:WebArtz becomes really famous

It would happen sooner than you thought if we moved on.....

Yes, that is very true!! Also you can remember that $2 a month is nothing ;)And in addition to that, you can do so much more to the theme

To be honest, im no legend on here or anything, but I don't think a paid host is worth it.

Forumotion is a great hosting, that lets you do alot! My forums, look the exact way I planed them to look. Many user's say paid hosting is worth the extra money, but in my opinion its a waste of money.

I mean, ask yourself this? Why do you need a paid hosting? What difference would it make?

PlatinumWata wrote:To be honest, im no legend on here or anything, but I don't think a paid host is worth it.

Forumotion is a great hosting, that lets you do alot! My forums, look the exact way I planed them to look. Many user's say paid hosting is worth the extra money, but in my opinion its a waste of money.

I mean, ask yourself this? Why do you need a paid hosting? What difference would it make?

Have you been on a different host till now? (doesn't need to be a paid host really, even a free host for a change)
you will figure it out!

Forumotion is a chunk of software which can't be modified, you just need to use from what they provide you, switch to a different software and you will experience the point of "changing your forum the way you want it to be, not only in the template side, but the complete forum!", support / help forums are better if they have the feel of a support forum.

Dimon, what do you want to change at this point of time. Can you suggest?

PlatinumWata wrote:To be honest, im no legend on here or anything, but I don't think a paid host is worth it.

Forumotion is a great hosting, that lets you do alot! My forums, look the exact way I planed them to look. Many user's say paid hosting is worth the extra money, but in my opinion its a waste of money.

I mean, ask yourself this? Why do you need a paid hosting? What difference would it make?

Ok so, I am assuming you have not tried paid posting due to your post. I'll name you one BIG thing that forumotion doesn't allow...backups. With out that, your forum gets hacked, your forum is pretty much screwed unless you try hard to convince him to get you a back up. On paid hosting, you upload your backup to your cpanel, boom...your set to go. Second, forumotion doesn't allow mods. With mods, you can make your forum more protected from spam and you can make it look how you want. Also, with phpbb3, you can edit the templates. That's another big advantage. Forumotion STILL doesn't offer that. Once you try out paid host, you learn real quick how much more freedom you get. I can keep going but I think you get the point

Yes, guys thats a valid point.

However, keep in mind the future for Forumotion. Typlo always releases good updates, and if you leave now, you might be wasting your time, as maybe their will be a backup update.

Also, im sure their is a backup on Forumotion. If you get hacked you log into Utlity, and restore to the last save.

Well, I'll go ahead and throw out my two recommendations:

1. Paid-hosting
2. Zetaboards (if you want to stick to free hosting)

Zetaboards is another free forum provider that offers a lot of goodies for free, like CSS editing, the ability to easily drop in scripts and other codes, etc. It also has a far more expansive admin panel. The overall service is 100x more professional and legitimate than Forumotion's. You can request for assistance directly from the admin CP as well, instead of having to put up with a "support forum", though they have one of those too should you feel the need to voice something to the general mass of their other clients.

EDIT: Also, your members get blogs on ZetaBoards; accessible through their UCP. Personally, that's freaking shweet!

Its a huge risk though.

Zetaboards does offer great features for free, but is all this worth losing your members, and posts?

I mean everything on this forum works amazing, and theirs really nothing to add.

PlatinumWata wrote:Yes, guys thats a valid point.

However, keep in mind the future for Forumotion. Typlo always releases good updates, and if you leave now, you might be wasting your time, as maybe their will be a backup update.

Also, im sure their is a backup on Forumotion. If you get hacked you log into Utlity, and restore to the last save.

Well, if the hacker knows what he or she is doing, then just a utility backup doesn't do much of anything plus its only every every 2 days. In addition, I highly doubt typlo will allow you to have your own backup. In order for that, you would need a copy of the database which forumotion doesn't give. That isn't actually uncommon for free forum hosts. Basically all a free forum host is for new people for foruming that don't know how to do everything. Anyway, all serious forumers know what to choose.

To be fair though, you can say that about any free hosting. If a hacker know's what he or she is doing, then they could succeed in a hack.

However, utility does a good job in getting your forum back, as it was.

Don't get me wrong, their may be a better free hosting. However, I don't see why changing is needed. Also, maybe instead of changing hosts, maybe change versions? Webartz runs on a lower version I believe, so maybe they can upgrade to Phpbb3. I have heard Phpbb3 is much harder to hack, if thats what the concern is.

Also Phpbb3, has great looks to it, and pleases me

Sanket wrote:Dimon, what do you want to change at this point of time. Can you suggest?

Right now, nothing, i just need everyone to think about the advantages and the disadvantages and then, if most of them agrees, we should move...I mean change to phpbb3 or mybb

PlatinumWata wrote:To be fair though, you can say that about any free hosting. If a hacker know's what he or she is doing, then they could succeed in a hack.

However, utility does a good job in getting your forum back, as it was.

Don't get me wrong, their may be a better free hosting. However, I don't see why changing is needed. Also, maybe instead of changing hosts, maybe change versions? Webartz runs on a lower version I believe, so maybe they can upgrade to Phpbb3. I have heard Phpbb3 is much harder to hack, if thats what the concern is.

Also Phpbb3, has great looks to it, and pleases me

We moved from phpbb3 to punbb mate (or was it phpbb2, i guess not)

PlatinumWata wrote:...I mean everything on this forum works amazing, and theirs really nothing to add.

There's actually a poop-ton to add! (notice I was somewhat "mature" and didn't say the other word xD )

I've already added my own points system that allows for easy addition and deduction with a simple click on the user's mini-profile. And that wasn't done with the enabling of an option though the admin panel, it was done through the easy template editing offered; something far less complex (and less ridiculous, mind you) than FM's own template editing.

I've also got a kick-butt awards (badge) system that can pull up a light window using javascript when the award icon is clicked. I've got it temporarily removed from my test board, however, until I figure out a way to reduce the amount of information in the mini-profile to just to the way I want it. Anywho, my point is, if WebArtz wants to really take off but remain on a low-budget, then ZetaBoards is the way to go.

However, I'm still all in favor of an actual paid host if you want the added security. Just keep in mind that true hosting can cost a wallet-full of money.

I propose that WebArtz experiments, first, with the different free hosts that are out there (create a test board for each respectable host) and collaborate and interview users that are already using paid hosts in order to get comparison and contrast between the two options.

As far as merging the members from here over to another board, goes? Its actually a lot easier than you think. Sure you can't transfer the database, and they will have to re-register, but WA's active member-base is still small enough to allow for such a task. Ego-One did the same thing and its been a success so far because their original member-base was small enough for them to recall their users to a new host without needing to transfer a database.

Let's face it, Forumotion was ahead of the game back in the early 2000s, but now they're an out-dated, worthless, confusing, and extremely inadequate forum host. Updates come out too slow, and modifications provided by members aren't exactly the best, and the ones that are usually require either template editing, or advanced knowledge in JavaScript. Whereas, other forum providors (like InvisionFree and ZetaBoards) offer a heck of a lot more flexibility, and eliminate cross-version barriers (and might I add, as a final perk I like, an integrated theme-changer with the ability to swap images that are not just in the CSS?).

For those interested in what I was talking about earlier (regarding the mods I mentioned), I'll have a link to my test forum at ZB up on my blog shortly, if you want to have a look-see and demonstration for yourself.

wow, that's a huge post xD

RecAgenda wrote:
Let's face it, Forumotion was ahead of the game back in the early 2000s, but now they're an out-dated, worthless, confusing, and extremely inadequate forum host. Updates come out too slow, and modifications provided by members aren't exactly the best, and the ones that are usually require either template editing, or advanced knowledge in JavaScript.

Soo true...

RecAgenda wrote:As far as merging the members from here over to another board, goes? Its actually a lot easier than you think. Sure you can't transfer the database, and they will have to re-register.

There's already a script for that, after converting, the members just have to "reset" their password and all the posts and user data will be saved, i.e database will be exported!

If you can transfer all your posts, and users then im up for it aswell

However, if you have 2,000 users, how are you going to get them back? If their not active all the time, then you lost another member as they need to reset password.

PlatinumWata wrote:If you can transfer all your posts, and users then im up for it aswell

However, if you have 2,000 users, how are you going to get them back? If their not active all the time, then you lost another member as they need to reset password.

Yeah its possible, btw we don't have 2000 members so we won't face such problem

Members can reset their password in less than 1 min, i think when a forum is trying so hard to impress its members, its the duty of the members to at least do this small thing for them!

Yes, but keep in mind users that signed up may not be active anymore. [well quite a few members actually]

So, if their not active, when you make a new forum you run the risk of losing members.

I'll be honest with you now. I love this forum, as its easy to use and has a layout. I don't see what you must add to impress the members. While you may think its impressing the members, some members might not like the switch. (another risk)

RecAgenda wrote:However, I'm still all in favor of an actual paid host if you want the added security. Just keep in mind that true hosting can cost a wallet-full of money.

Actually that isn't really true. Only $3 is only $36 and keep in mind, you can even sometimes go cheaper.

PlatinumWata wrote:I'll be honest with you now. I love this forum, as its easy to use and has a layout. I don't see what you must add to impress the members. While you may think its impressing the members, some members might not like the switch. (another risk)

Yes, that can be a risk but there wouldn't really be much of a change. All your doing is moving from forumotion to phpbb. You can easily re-create this theme in phpbb3.

Thats true.

Whats the point though?

Only switch if you want to do more, than what this already provides. However, don't switch because you want to add a few cool mods. This forum is for helping issues, not to see who has the best forum.

RecAgenda wrote:Anywho, my point is, if WebArtz wants to really take off but remain on a low-budget, then ZetaBoards is the way to go.

...

Let's face it, Forumotion was ahead of the game back in the early 2000s, but now they're an out-dated, worthless, confusing, and extremely inadequate forum host. Updates come out too slow, and modifications provided by members aren't exactly the best, and the ones that are usually require either template editing, or advanced knowledge in JavaScript. Whereas, other forum providors (like InvisionFree and ZetaBoards) offer a heck of a lot more flexibility, and eliminate cross-version barriers (and might I add, as a final perk I like, an integrated theme-changer with the ability to swap images that are not just in the CSS?).

In another life (and screen name), I was involved with Zetaboards when it was known as InvisionFree. Involved, in fact, before forumactif started in 2004 and Editboard (now called forumotion) started in 2006. I've had a couple test boards on Zetaboards for a while now...one since 2005 under my IF screen name, one since 2009 under the screen name I use here on forumotion.

Zetaboards has several advantages over forumotion, but a couple BIG disadvantages. I'll start with the reason why I don't think WebArtz should move there: Zetaboards is English-only, and they are quite ruthless at deleting non-English boards they find. forumotion/forumactif/foroactivo/etc supports a worldwide community, and indeed, many of the members here have non-English boards. It doesn't make sense to move this board to a free host that many of its members cannot use.

Zetaboards also has very aggressive ads that cannot be turned off for members, and the cost to remove ads is quite high compared to forumotion. A moderately-active board on Zetaboards will need to spend US$10/month to remove ads. And finally, while their server code is GREAT, their DOM/client code is horrible, worse in fact than phpBB2. While adding scripts/HTML/CSS/etc is much easier on Zetaboards, undoing its godawful DOM through javascript is a LOT of work.

Now, its advantages. First and foremost, Zetaboards is professionally run. Their support forum is several orders of magnitude better than forumotion's English support forum. I would add that the forumactif French support forum is well-run, so I don't know how or why the English forum is so terrible, and has been since I first joined it in 2007. Well, yeah I do...

In addition, Zetaboards has a code/theme database that makes Hitskin look, um, childish in comparison.

But its biggest advantage is that Zetaboards and its membership are based in the real world when it comes to web/page design. For whatever reason, forumotion has fostered the mistaken belief that graphics is 90% of a good web/page design. The real world (the one where people pay for design services) knows that good web/page design is roughly 2/3 code and 1/3 graphics. IPBDion was my attempt to get people here accustomed to what is required in real world web/page design. I quickly realized it was a waste of my time...for now.

Good luck with Zetaboards! It does meet your needs better than here on forumotion. And you don't have to be philosophically-conflicted over the main business of forumotion's parent company, eToxic.

I was wondering when you would show up, Dion.

I think this is one thing we might have to agree to disagree on. I'm very sure you're right about the price difference in ad removal, as well as the DOM being horrible, but I'm still quite pleased with what Zeta has to offer over Forumotion. As far as the aggressiveness of their ads, I've actually seen little difference between the two clients. In fact, I'm more pleased with Zeta right now because I haven't seen any clandestine ad appearances, something that eToxic apparently specializes in considering the fact that Forumotion has thrown their users to the dogs more than once. Because of their shady business tactics, I completely distrust them.

If WebArtz is concerned about cost in any way, then I've got some good news for you. Since I'm deploying soon I'm about to be reeling in the cash (big time, since I'll be getting "flight pay" on top of all the other increased pay for this mission). I'll be happy to pay for some of WA's expenses; including any and all ad-removal. For the staff: I'll be explaining further in our forum.

Seems to me that we agree about this far more than we disagree.

I did say that ZetaBoards meets your needs better than here on forumotion. And we agree on the relative strengths of ZetaBoards over forumotion. I did see that you took advantage of the ZB code database on your forum...good for you!

But that isn't what this topic is about. You never bothered to address the big reason why I believe ZetaBoards is not a good home for WebArtz (it's English-only). What I read was a list of reasons why ZetaBoards was a good home for YOU. I didn't even mention that the owners of WebArtz are long-time staff members on forumotion's English support forum, and with the 5,000-10,000 credits each receives annually for services rendered, they have more than enough credits to keep WebArtz ad-free for many years.